In this episode we will be talking with Chloe Pott, currently the Senior Marketing Operations Manager at Datadog, about best practices for how to approach a Martech Stack Audit. One of the most important thing we all need to do as MOPs professionals is make sure we understand the technology that is in our ecosystem and ensure that we are optimizing regularly. We will talk about how to approach a tech stack audit and key elements to focus on.
Recorded live on May 6, 2021.
Hi, I’m Michael Hartmann, I’m Naomi Lou,and I’m Mike Rizzo. And this is ops cast, a podcast for marketing ops pros and rev ops pros created by the MO Pros. The number one community for marketing operations. As professionals tune into each episode as we chat with real professionals to help elevate you in your marketing operations career.
Hello, everyone. Welcome to episode eight of ops cast by the Mopro. I’m your host Michael Hartmann. And I’m joined today with a cohost Naomi, Lou and Mike Rizzo. Everybody, if you are listening, live and wanted join in the conversation, please, uh, feel free to ask to be brought on air or. Not comfortable with that.
There’s the chat that you can join as well. Drop any questions or comments in there. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll be glad to keep an eye on those and, and include your, your input today. We’re excited to have Chloe Pot with us. Who’s coming with, to us from France, although she is a native Chicagoin, uh, she is the senior marketing operation manager manager at Datadog.
And, um, Chloe, welcome to OpsCast. We’re glad to have you, would you take a minute to introduce yourself? Of course, thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here today. As Michael mentioned, I’m a native Chicago and I’m transplanted to the south of France and Teloché, I’ve worked in B2B software for a little over 10 years now with.
a wide veriety of marketing hats from program management to digital marketing, to field marketing, and my core expertise lies in marketing operations and platform integrations. I’m a three-time Marquetto engaged champions. I’m the founder and the co-leader of the Marquetto European virtual user group.
And I recently joined data dog, uh, through it through an acquisition. So I’m excited to be here today to talk about our auditing tech tech tech stack subject. That’s awesome. Yeah. So Chloe here, you’re elevating the game here cause you shine all of us on us. I think. So, uh, you mentioned as you introduced yourself that you just recently moved companies and, um, I’m sure that one of those things that you were, you know, kind of getting ready for as you were going to join the company was, you know, how, you know, as you’re approaching the new role.
Yeah, you, you’re going to need to kind of understand the lay of the land. Like what’s the current state of, of the tech, the processes, everything else, um, that you would be working with, you know, how did you, um, just approach that new role and kind of prepare yourself for evaluating that? That’s a great question.
It’s right now, certainly with the times of COVID and everyone being remote it’s of course more difficult to learn and zoom fatigue. Real, but my, what I did is I, and I’m still doing, because I’ve been in this role for about three weeks now is shadowing, shadowing, uh, group meetings. Uh, when someone’s gonna, uh, do something, uh, a quick little task ask, if you can, Hey, can you set up a zoom?
Can I just screen share and take a look? So that’s still a lot of what I’m doing is learning about how the organization works, the processes that. That they use and, um, doing a lot of informal interviews with people in marketing operations. In general marketing organization, uh, at Datadog specifically, are there some parts of the marketing organization that don’t roll up into marketing or web design or create our content writing team?
They don’t roll up into marketing. So I’ve met with a few of them, pick their brains, uh, if your company’s large enough to have an internal communications team. When it comes to auditing, uh, a MarTech stack, they’re actually a very cool team to, to pick their brains. Uh, they’re removed enough from marketing, but still implicated enough to have a sort of sense of what, what a marketer does.
And so that’s really like the first, the first thing I’ve been doing is, you know, just learning, absorbing and. Not not making any judgements yet. I’m learning, I’m taking notes and I’m preparing and that’s, that’s what I’m doing right now. Yeah. You know, I don’t think we, we talked about like, how long have you been with, I know, I know you actually moved to a new company.
I can’t remember the name of the company screen, right. That they got acquired. So you’ve kind of gone through two transitions. How long have you been been there at this point? Is it, is it been weeks, months? It’s been it’s been weeks. Okay. So I joined screen, uh, beginning of the year and shortly after joining, uh, within weeks.
And actually within days they announced the acquisition. And so there was a time between the announcement of the acquisition and the, the final move towards, um, to becoming Datadog employees. There was about a two or three months. And, uh, so I was at screen for a short tenure, but it was a lot of fun and I learned a lot and that’s where I did my first audit.
And now as week three, as a Datadog employee, I’m doing my second audit within the past three months, four months almost. So, yeah, it’s week three at Datadog right now. So you mentioned doing like. I think you said informal interviews with sort of different people, both kind of more closely associated with marketing ops and tech and some that are kind of, um, sort of adjacent to it, I guess is the way I would put it.
So did you, did you. You know, uh, how did you identify those people that you should talk with? Is it something that you worked with, uh, your manager before you got there? Or was it something you started working on as you got there to, to kind of get the lay of the land of who you needed to talk to? It’s a bit of both.
It depends on how the organization is set up. Uh, I’ve been at companies where, uh, within the marketing department, you have everything from branding, copywriting, web development, to all the different types of marketing roles, whereas Datadog it’s structured it slightly differently. Um, so I. I think my, my ex my experience in marketing operations has also taught me that I know that there are certain teams that automatically marketing ops has to have a close knit, close knit relationship with sales ops development, like your website development team, not necessarily engineering, uh, copywriters, uh, content writers, design branding.
It’s, it’s really finding. That, that blending of the people you work with, the processes, they use the processes in place and the technology they use. And those are really the that’s kind of what I live and breathe as a marketing office professional today is ensuring that the people have processes in place and technology that works for them.
And I think just having worked in this role for awhile, you’d be, you start to know. A well-rounded marketing, marketing ops org. You’re, you’re gonna need to talk to web development. You’re going to need to talk to content. Um, so I think a lot of that is also from experience, um, but actually finding who the, who the name of that person is, is more of is that’s industry that’s company specific.
Right. You know what, as you’re talking, it reminds me of a couple of, or a couple of things that ring true with me. One, um, I think you’ve mentioned briefly that you talked about you. Like, what are the tools and things people are using? One of the things I’ve seen as in consulting roles or other places is if you go and talk to those people, you often uncover what I would call shadow systems, right?
The things that they’re using. Day to day that aren’t the formal kind of things they’re using for their process. The other, the other thing I think I liked about it is that you mentioned looking at processes first, right. And how they want to use this deals in thinking about the technology is really an enabler.
I think that it was, that was it as a fair sort of. Yes, uh, assessment of what you were saying. Yeah. So, um, it, it makes me, you know, I think maybe we should almost take a step back here a little bit and talk about when you’re coming in. You think you need to get whether you’re coming in new or you’ve changed role a little bit, you know, when you are thinking, like, I need to do an audit of the tech stack, um, what do you like when you think about that?
What is the overall purpose of doing that tech stack audit and you know, what do you want on. Well, as you go through it, what do you want? Is the outcome, like, what would that look like?
I, uh, I want to throw some stats out there cause everyone loves a good stat. Every once in a while. Of course. Did you, did you know that that the average company has 120 MarTech tools available to them that they actually have in their. That’s a lot of tools. That’s a lot of tools. And that only about 58% of the stack is actually being used fully.
Um, that was, uh, a survey that Gardner did in 2020. Um, and so I bring these up because that right there helps us understand why it’s important to do an audit. If you are. If you have 120 tools in your tech stack and your team is only using 58% of it fully, there’s some money. That’s probably getting, going down the drain there.
So I think that’s the main purpose of an audit is ensure that you’re getting your money’s worth from your tech stack. And I mean, ask yourself this question. If you’re not using the tool, get rid of. Uh, tools are expensive these days. Uh, another purpose that comes to mind is really that you want to, the goal of a, of an audit is to evaluate that each tool that you have actually brings, brings success, kind of like Marie Kondo.
Does it bring you joy? Does it bring any value to the organization? Because ultimately you want every tool that you have in your stack to contribute to revenue. Whether you’re in marketing and sales, even in the more behind the scenes roles, legal finance everyone’s goal is the same as we want to bring in more revenue.
So let’s get those tools out there that aren’t, uh, that aren’t helping us. That’s a great, a great, uh, blog posts in the future, but how do we remove Marie Kondo? Our texts? It doesn’t bring you joy or not like that’s a clipper saving forever. There, there are definitely some blog posts out there. I was not the first one to say it.
I believe it. That’s. That’s great. I just hadn’t read it yet. Um, some of the other outcomes that we can think of Michael are, I mean, ultimately, can we save any money or we are, is our team using the tools fully? If not, should we get rid of them? Are there duplicate tools? Uh, can we save our team’s time by either adding, removing, streamlining any technology?
Um, That’s that’s a long answer to what’s the goal of an audit is, is it bringing us joy? Is it bringing value to the organization? And are we getting our money’s worth out of it? Do you ever do an exercise? I’m curious where you kind of do a, uh, uh, start from budget zero, I guess wherever year as contracts are coming up for renewal, you kind of look and see, because what I’ve found and I’ve done this in the past where I’ve like canceled contracts is that, you know, as new features are added to tools, sometimes the overlap between two pro products, you have become smaller and smaller and they, over time they tend to, you know, they might do 60 or 70% of the same thing.
And then it’s like, Is it worth it to pay for two things that do have so much overlap, and maybe there’s only like one feature that you may or may not be using in another. Do you ever do that kind of exercise where you kind of go back and say, Hey, you know, all of these new add on features to this product a now like almost resembles product B and now I’m just going to kind of cut that contract.
Do you find that that happens often to you at all? Personally to me, it hasn’t happened. I’ve only been in a, in a role that would require me to audit a fairly recently been about the last year. Um, but I can definitely see it happening and I’ve seen it happen to other people. Um, I’m in a multitude of slack communities, uh, around marketing operations professionals.
They, I mean, just like at the Adobe summit last week or two weeks ago where they announced all these new releases that, that, uh, Marketo engage is going to have and all the, all the acquisitions that are happening these days, I think Demandbase either just got acquired or just acquired a company and tools are suddenly becoming these mega beasts, the, of, of one-stop shops that can do everything.
So. Without thinking too much about it. I think it’s either you, like, you go all in on one of those big beasts tools or you don’t buy all those ad-ons and you stick with the smaller, smaller versions of the tool. But, but yes, definitely. I mean, you’re, you’re very right either. There are tools that are, that are evolving and there’s over 8,000 of them available today and there can’t you got to stop.
Yeah, Naomi, you, you bring up a point that I hadn’t even really thought about in this context. And that is, I know I, I would have struggled with it in the past too, is because you’re, you know, the, the, the buying process of adding new technology, it doesn’t always line up to the same schedule. You mentioned, like trying to like almost an annual process.
Of reviewing contracts and tech. Are you, are you, have you been able to get to a point where you have those contracts, the timing of your contracts lineup pretty closely, where you can do that sort of at the same time? Or is it something you’re doing on a regular basis? Um, no, but it’s still important, I think to do it annually because even if the contracts don’t line up, sometimes it can take.
Over a year to deprecate yourself off of a tool as well. Right. Just because even if, just because you’re doing the same. So we have this issue right now with two tools that do the same thing. I’m not going to call them out or what they are, but, um, they essentially are doing exactly the same thing and, and one tool is outperforming the other, but it’s been.
Two years now. And we keep renewing the contract of the one that we’re not really using, just because it’s such a pain to get ourselves off of it. Right. So I bring that up because every year you do it, but you still need to have like a, you know, a migration process off of a platform too. And sometimes.
This type of thing happens as well, especially if you work for a company that grows through acquisition, which has been right. So in the, you know, the time that I’ve been here, we’ve acquired a couple of number of companies where I’ve been part of the integration process. And, you know, I feel like I can do discovery and integration in my sleep now because it’s just happened so much.
Um, but because of that, you also tend to inherit a lot of legacy tools as well, that you don’t immediately just like off-board right. Um, and sometimes those tools. Can actually be better than the ones that you do have. So just, uh, there’s also like tangental, I guess, um, uh, evaluations when it comes to MarTech stack as well.
And it’s not just more tickets like across the, across the board, right? Sales, tech, HR systems and things like that. So, um, I’m curious for you, um, Chloe, and maybe the rest of the team here, um, who is. Who’s tr like, what’s the impetus, like in your case, Chloe? I think it’s pretty obvious. And this, in this particular situation that you’re in you’re, you’re coming into an organization, there was an acquisition you’re, you’re really pretty actively like having to go through an audit process.
Um, but maybe in it, whether now if, if there’s other impetus as to what caused an audit to take place beyond the activities that have kind of happened for you, um, what other triggers are there and then who owns those? Right. Like, is that you you’re, you’re reaching out to your comms team or your design team or your email team because you happen to manage the integration or are they coming to you and saying, Hey, um, we know this renewal is coming up and we need someone to help us go through an audit of this tool.
Like, is it, or is that it like, who’s the kind of, so two questions is like, you know, what’s the impetus for even having a trigger. And a tech stack audit. And then who’s really the one driving that I guess it couldn’t have the same. I think that’s a great question. I think I want to preface it with saying that I think each organization is going to be different.
Um, from my experience, I think some of the triggers of, uh, of what could stem the need for an audit is, uh, is headcount change the role. Um, I’ve been enrolled before where they’ve replaced the management level, the director level. And it’s been that that’s been, the trigger is there’s been a new director on board.
Who’s asking, Hey, what’s in our tech stack. Maybe we should start rethinking some of them, or it could be, uh, like Naomi was mentioning once a year, you do kind of, uh, an audit, but when during the year frequently I’ve seen it done, you know, around the same time that you’re planning your annual marketing plan and your budget planning.
Um, It depends on who holds the budget for the, for the MarTech stack. Is it marketing? I’ve also seen it lie with it. Um, and so you have to do your, your audit, your MarTech audit, and with enough time to give the it org a heads up for them to factor in the budget for the specific tech that, that you may be acquiring or abandoning, I think, which is a great fall.
The question who owns, who owns that process? I think it depends on who owns the budget. I think it depends on who uses the tool. Um, and I could see it both ways. I think someone, if design has a tool that they’re not quite sure they want to use anymore, if they don’t know how to properly do an audit or if their tools integrate, uh, natively or very closely with the tools that marketing is using.
Then I could very well see the audit happening on the MarTech side. I know when with sales ops or sometimes even HR, if they acquire or implement tools that integrate with the marketing stack, then it requires someone from both of those teams to participate. Definitely in, in doing the audit.
That’s it. Yeah, that’s great. Um, and it sounds like, um, I think, I think w one of the questions I was going to ask was about like, is this a one-time thing you do, but it sounds like we’ve, we’ve all sort of circled around it. No, this is something we should be doing on some sort of recurring basis. Um, you know, we got a question in the chat here from Rob Walter, which I think is a good one.
Um, you know, do we do any of you have a. Um, a template for how you go about whether I I’m going to put it into two parts, whether I’m not sure exactly what he was looking for, but I think one is, do you have a, like a plan or approach that you’re going to do from this templatize one? And then maybe do you have a template for how you like to document the, um, what you defined things in recommendations?
These are, you know, I guess I’m going to leave it to Chloe. Naomi, you’re probably, you both seem to be most familiar with this stuff. Thoughts on.
Um, that’s the same word tech tool. So I would say that for me, I don’t have a template for assessment MarTech tool simply it’s. I mean, it’s in my brain, I guess you could say. Um, because generally the way that, um, the T the way that I’ve structured my team is that we tend to admin and own, um, all of the tools in our, in our stack.
So we tend to know it, um, Better than most within the organization. So if we feel like something’s just not really beneficial working for us anymore, um, there’s there hasn’t been as far as, um, like my experience has been there hasn’t been any real pushback from our end. If we make that decision, um, to kill a contract, they tend to kind of take our, take our, uh, take her recommendation for that.
At least that’s been my experience. I don’t know what everyone else.
I, yeah, I agree with Naomi it’s. It’s difficult to have to use a template when you live and breathe the tools all the time, and you, you own the vendor relationships. However, Robin response to your question. Uh, there are templates out there that exist. Uh, a lot of them are spreadsheet based and they’re score based, uh, with like a one to five score and that numerical value score you can use to help you.
B, uh, not agnostic, but to help you just give it a score. And, and there are templates out there that give you all the different categories to score upon integration, uh, user interface costs, implementation, roll up time, or, and you can give it a score one to five. And then based on this is a certainly of course, if you’re implementing a new tool, Um, it can help you pick which one is best for your team, but there are templates out there that exist.
I haven’t used them. No. Kind of like Naomi, I live in breathe the tools and I know best what works. Yeah. Chloe, I think that’s great. I think what you’re, to me, what it sounds like you’re talking about is the same kind of thing I’ve used in the past, in the initial selection of tools. Right. So does it, that you try to take some of the.
Bias and, uh, and or emotion or opinion part out of the selection process. Right. And you try to get it to, these are the features and functions that matter to us for this particular scope of, uh, of tool. And then it sounds like you’re suggesting maybe using something similar to that in the assessment process, as you, as you’re doing an audit, whether it’s a one-time or ongoing, is that kind of what your.
Yes, definitely. Okay, good. Um, and then, uh, I don’t want to go back to this totally, but Naomi, what you were talking about, the, um, the challenge of evaluating tools and knowing like, we know this tool is one, that’s not really the right one to use long-term, but because we know the effort of changing it out is significant that you sort of make that you have to make that sort of suboptimal decision to do two.
For another period of time, uh, until you’re ready to actually go through that process. That is a, I’ve been there myself. It kind of gives me a little heart palpitation. No, it definitely. And then it’s just kind of like you, you, yeah, it’s just a lot of heartburn to see the money that’s being wasted on that, for sure.
Um, one of the other ways that I also determine if a tool is no longer going to be viable within the company is when was my last longer. To be honest if I don’t use it anymore, that’s a clear sign that it’s on its way out. Absolutely. I’m the same. I think I would apply that same thing if you’ve got maybe not the full tool, but the level of like, if you’ve got a tool and Marquetto is a good example where our marketing automation platforms are a good example where if you’ve kind of, this goes back to our scaling conversation last week, right?
You know, built it out so that you can extend it out to sort of beyond the core team, but then those people aren’t actually logging in and using it well. And if you’re paying for those extra seats, you could maybe capture some of that, that budget back by eliminating those. Um, I don’t know if you’ve done that to Naomi.
Yeah. Well, we haven’t actually gone through a, um, we haven’t gone through a renewal yet of our Marquetto instance. So that is something that we’ll be definitely looking at on site to do list that goes on that checklist. Um, so, you know, I want to go back, Chloe. Yeah, I think we’ve been talking a lot about, you know, kind of looking at the tech specifically and its features functions as you’re evaluating it during an audit.
Um, but you mentioned early on, right? Your part, a big part of where you start is on the people and process side. Do you know, how do you, you know, how do you think about that in terms of relative importance versus the actual technologies capabilities as you’re going through the, the evaluation. I think that the it’s more important to focus on the people that you work with and the processes in place, and then find a technology that works for the team.
So there are so many. Tools available out there today. Um, I think it’s much easier to find a tool that fits to your team then vice versa. Cause you can’t really pick who you work with all the time. Um, and I think that’s where people’s skills come in handy. Uh, like I mentioned earlier on in the call shadowing getting to know people, hearing, hearing, just, just listening to them, hear their challenges.
Um, What I’ve made a conscious effort doing the past couple of weeks in my new role is to, to really go in with a, with an open ear and notes, pen and paper, and just take notes. Listen to them, hear their challenges observed. I’ve been participating in these processes and getting my hands dirty in the, in the campaign ops, which I don’t typically do anymore, but that’s the only way for me to learn how the team works and what works for them and where their challenges are.
And then use those observations to hone in. On areas of improvement, whether it’s in the process itself, or maybe the tool, the tech itself is not advanced enough or sometimes too advanced for the team. So I think it’s more important to put a heavier. Uh, wait on the people and the processes in place. And then if you’re, if you have the luxury to then find the tech that evolves, that fits with the team.
Yeah. You just hit on something I think is a really important one. I want to highlight, which is, um, by looking at the people in the process and how they, how they utilize the tools, you might actually uncover something. Yeah. Uh, the existing tool is fine, but there might be, um, for like a version of like sand in the gears right.
Of how they actually use it for, uh, for campaign operations, for example. Right. And, um, maybe their improvements there, you could do with the existing tool rather than thinking about it as a replay. So, um, I think that’s a good thing to be looking for as like, how can you use. Make improvements to how you’re actually leveraging the existing tool set in addition to be looking at like, is it the right set of tools that we have for what we need?
Um, I was gonna say something similar to that. Michael was just, as I was hearing you share that Chloe, and right before we jumped into that, that question, I was trying to think about like, sometimes it feels like an audit is purely based on, uh, You know, what, like, what are we paying for that we’re not that we just don’t need.
And it kind of comes from like a negative space versus a opportunistic space. And it sounded like actually from that last response, Chloe, where you’re saying, Hey, I’m, I’m listening to. How campaign operations is ideally supposed to function for these different teams and their needs and their pain points.
And then it sounds like the potential outcome of that, you know, the result would be, I can guide this team on how to best leverage the technologies that we have today, which is a much more positive spin on a tech audit. Whereas I feel like in a mops role, you’re so often thinking about how do we go save money, or what are we overpaying for?
Um, and how do we get rid of. Instead of like, how do we just actually use more of it more effectively? Um, and so I was appreciative of you kind of sharing that you’re integrating yourself into these daily processes and, you know, being a fly on the wall and hopefully like helping the team optimize. Yeah.
I think I really do think that that’s the best way to help a team grow and evolve is, I mean, I could sit on my high horse and. Pick the best of the technology that’s out there because it’s my personal preference, but that may not be the best decision for the team or for the organization. Um, and I’ve been in a situation where.
Hated really hated a specific tool. I wanted to switch, but like Naomi was mentioning it’s so ingrained in what we do the team somewhat. I mean, pretty well uses it. Uh, but it’s just, we can’t, we can’t tear it out and sometimes you have to put your ego aside and. And then just say, you know what? This is, this is what’s going to work for the team.
This is what’s going to make us better because we are for one team we all have one goal is we want to bring in wherever. Yeah, absolutely. Right. It’s like this really well. I always, I, I talked about this a lot, right. Decisions like that are not usually a right or wrong, um, as it is in most things in life.
Right. It’s a, it’s a matter of trade-offs. Right. And so you’re having to make these offs, those that may not be ideal or suboptimal. And so that I think is a. Yeah, just as a lesson learned over my time in marketing ops and other places. Right. That is an important part of kind of looking at a lens that I think about, um, decisions like that.
All right. So what, one, one more thing I think we haven’t really touched on and I haven’t heard you talk about it yet is, you know, as to me as a part of evaluating the tech stack and processes and everything else is the underlying, you know, implications of that on data quality. Um, and you know, how much are you looking at?
How the process is how the technology either enhances or, or causes problems with data quality across the, the, you know, the life cycle of, of say a lead going through the pre.
I think that it’s, it’s definitely one of the steps in an audit is, is like that evaluation step. There’s that quantitative side and the qualitative side. And so you need to, I think you do need to add that step in there of how, how many leads, how many, um, QL is in the past, whatever timeframe 12 months, 24 months has this tool brought us.
If you’re unable to measure that. Might need to work on your reporting a little bit. Um, but I definitely think that if the tool’s not bringing in the data or it’s constantly giving you errors or not working properly, then it’s time to time to think about maybe switching it out. And then there’s that qualitative side of the evaluation.
How has the integration working? Is it native? Is it bulky? Are there tool redundancies? I mean, are the gaps in your stack? There’s, there’s a lot of feelings that go into, into a tech audit, but that factor of that, the performance, how much, how much money have we brought in how much revenue? I think that’s a big one that does need to, that doesn’t need to be a part of the, of the audit for.
Yeah, absolutely. All right. So, uh, we are getting close to the end of our time here, but, um, I want to give you a chance, uh, Chloe, if there’s anything that we, you, you, when you were coming into this conversation about doing a MarTech stack audit. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything that we haven’t covered that you would go make sure, like, this is a thing you’ve had, you know, you might not be thinking about, but you need to be thinking about, or that we just.
Where to start? I think, I think there’s a lot, uh, but I’ll keep it. I’ll keep it pretty short. I think communicating is key, uh, whether you’re communicating at the beginning, the middle or the end of your audit, specifically at the end, when you finished your audit and you have a plan on what you’re going to off-board or pick possibly what you’re going to onboard, communicating it, not just to the marketing organization.
To sales, to product, to internal comms. I think the more people you can, the more stakeholders that you can share this with, you can increase your tool adoption internally. You could possibly have new users, um, and also prevents the unfortunate situation of other departments, inheriting tools that you might need to manage someday, uh, because they are, they will they’ll know what you have available.
And I think. Definitely attacking being confronted with a tech audit can be very overwhelming. And I think that’s a valid feeling to have it’s okay. To feel overwhelmed. There are a lot of resources out there to help you get through this. I would start saying. And I would definitely hold off on judging anything until during your audit, until you’re done, you don’t know why things were set up that way, the way that they’re set up, people may not have had enough resources.
They may not have known. And so that’s, that’s, those are my concluding thoughts. Got it. That’s awesome. All right. One last question. And then we’re going to wrap it up here, but this is unrelated sort of somewhat related, but one of the things that we are trying to do with the podcast and with the MO Pros general is to be a resource for marketing operations professionals.
Um, in general and you know, to the point where, like, we know there’s nothing out there, like a marketing operations professional certification, but if there were right, what are, what are a couple of things you think should be, would, would need to be included in that for it to be a valid, you know, thing that you could be excited about putting on your profile or whatever on LinkedIn?
Wow. I will put something in there about. How to communicate marketing ops using non-marketing ops terms. Oh, I like that one. I do too. I mean, my job to my 95 year old grandfather, then I think I can probably explain it to anyone. Oh, Naomi, we an Naomi. I was like an ongoing joke with everybody about
it. See that, that it seems they know what it is
like the old.
Yeah, that was a great answer, Chloe. Thank you. Yeah, you’re welcome. We blindsided you on that one. So no, no very much appreciate it, Chloe. This has been really, really interesting. It’s brought out some ideas that I hadn’t really thought about and hopefully others who are listening, who are either listening live or, um, or have, uh, have listened to this on the recording, which we’ll be putting up shortly.
After this. Um, but where can, uh, where can we find or where can people find you, Chloe, if they want to follow your great work. And I know you’ve been doing some speaking and things like that. Well, if anyone listening is in the south of France, I’d love to meet up for a socially distant coffee. Uh, otherwise you can find me online on LinkedIn or on Twitter.
Awesome. Maybe one of these days, I’ll get out to see the tour de France and it’ll be nearby. All right. I think we’re going to call that a wrap. Thanks. Uh, thanks to everyone who was listening online. We really appreciate, uh, the questions and the participation. Um, for those of you who are listening to the recording.
Thank you. Um, you know, we really look for, for everyone to be a part of this and we want to be a resource. If you are. Yeah. If you have suggestions for us on future topics, or you want to be included in one of these episodes, feel free to reach out to me, or you can find me on LinkedIn. It’s Michael Hartmann with two NS.
Um, you can also join the MO Pros community if you aren’t already. And if you want to follow a follow along. The, uh, these, this podcast and the episodes along the way, uh, we’ve got a new URL for those. It is ops cast dot dot com. So you just follow that and you’ll be able to get to all the past episodes and be able to also subscribe from there to whatever player you use with that.
It’s a wrap. Uh, thank you, Chloe. Again, Mike. Naomi, thank you as always appreciate it. Everyone have a great. Stellar. Thank you, Chloe.